Discussion:
"X-Men: TAS" - Why the hate?
(too old to reply)
TMC
2012-02-24 02:50:25 UTC
Permalink
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thread=415346&page=1

With the X-Men animated series of the '90s, I always hear comments how
it's aged horribly (at least here in FAN). Which I think is very
untrue.

The storyline had some good drama and the animation (it does look old
when you look it at now) but the style fit the feel, looked just like
the comics, and still looks good to the eye.

The violence from the comics was toned down and the storyline was
weakened, but so was Batman: TAS.

So why the hate?
Terrence Briggs
2012-02-25 19:32:06 UTC
Permalink
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=...
With the X-Men animated series of the '90s, I always hear comments how
it's aged horribly (at least here in FAN). Which I think is very
untrue.
The storyline had some good drama and the animation (it does look old
when you look it at now) but the style fit the feel, looked just like
the comics, and still looks good to the eye.
The violence from the comics was toned down and the storyline was
weakened, but so was Batman: TAS.
So why the hate?
I can't speak for FAN, but here's what I've observed from critical
viewers over the years:

*AKOM's animation SUX. A lot. When the first season originally
aired, there were so many ugly sequences that later airings altered or
removed the scenes in question. Don't believe me? Pull out a video
tape of the first X-Men episodes, and compare them to what's on the
DVD box set.

*The dialogue is too melodramatic and clunky. Lots of speeches,
exposition, and soap-opera whining. At its worst, the hammy
deliveries and lines are laughably bad. If you didn't like the early
episodes, "Captive Hearts" pushed you over the edge.

*The audience's introduction to the X-Men is a whiny mallrat,
Jubilee. She is probably the LEAST interesting character on the team,
and (admittedly) a lousy introduction to the series. As a 12-year-old
watching the show for the first time, I would have agreed with that
assessment.

*Slapstick is all over the first few episodes. This, more than
anything, confirmed the series' capitulation to Saturday Morning
infantilism.

*The last two (or even three) seasons are godawful filler that is
better off not being seen. Even the episodes that close earlier
narrative arcs are handled so poorly that they might as well have been
dumped. (See: Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles, Phantom 2040, and
TMNT: Back to the Sewers for other examples.)

I concede all of these points, but will save my defense of the series
for another thread :-)

Terrence Briggs, bought the first two season box sets, cuz the show
was STILL that good.
Peace to you...
Scott Eiler
2012-02-26 02:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terrence Briggs
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=...
With the X-Men animated series of the '90s, I always hear comments how
it's aged horribly (at least here in FAN). Which I think is very
untrue.
The storyline had some good drama and the animation (it does look old
when you look it at now) but the style fit the feel, looked just like
the comics, and still looks good to the eye.
Plot-wise: Season 1: good. Season 2: kind of slapped together.
Season 3 would have been awesome, except the publishers were already
giving up on it and only put together a half-season's worth.

Animation-wise: The main complaint I heard was, Wolverine should be
made of fluid motion, but he came nowhere close. I can recall him
attacking Colossus the exact same way twice in one episode, with the
exact same result, and there was exactly no claw contact either time.
Post by Terrence Briggs
So why the hate?
*The audience's introduction to the X-Men is a whiny mallrat,
Jubilee. She is probably the LEAST interesting character on the team,
and (admittedly) a lousy introduction to the series. As a 12-year-old
watching the show for the first time, I would have agreed with that
assessment.
Huh? Perhaps we're not talking about the same series here.
Post by Terrence Briggs
*The last two (or even three) seasons are godawful filler that is
better off not being seen. Even the episodes that close earlier
narrative arcs are handled so poorly that they might as well have been
dumped. (See: Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles, Phantom 2040, and
TMNT: Back to the Sewers for other examples.)
Yeah. Some of the ways that people give up on series mystify me. (I
still miss Babylon 5.)
--
(signed) Scott Eiler 8{D> -------- http://www.eilertech.com/ ---------

Turns out I'm an anally-fixated oedipal paranoid with
south-of-the-border schizophrenic delusions... But never mind, I've
found me the ideal job. I'm going to run for President!

- Major Honey, scripted by Grant Morrison (that's *Mister* Morrison to
you), Doom Patrol #46, August 1991.
Terrence Briggs
2012-02-27 18:22:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Terrence Briggs
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=...
<snip>
Post by Terrence Briggs
*The audience's introduction to the X-Men is a whiny mallrat,
Jubilee.  She is probably the LEAST interesting character on the team,
and (admittedly) a lousy introduction to the series.  As a 12-year-old
watching the show for the first time, I would have agreed with that
assessment.
Huh?  Perhaps we're not talking about the same series here.
<snip>

The series premiere, Night of the Sentinels, started out with
Jubilee. We meet the other X-Men when they come to save her.
Eventually, she's given a tour of the mansion.

This bit of narrative introduction was also used in WildC.A.T.S., as
Reno Bryce was used as our entry point for that team. Of course, Reno
was a badass, compared to Jubilee :-)

Terrence Briggs, likes Alyson Court and all, but Jubilee's kinda one-
note
Peace to you...
Terrence Briggs
2012-03-02 18:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Eiler
Post by Terrence Briggs
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=...
With the X-Men animated series of the '90s, I always hear comments how
it's aged horribly (at least here in FAN). Which I think is very
untrue.
The storyline had some good drama and the animation (it does look old
when you look it at now) but the style fit the feel, looked just like
the comics, and still looks good to the eye.
Plot-wise: Season 1: good.
Season 2: kind of slapped together.
Season 1 was pretty tight, especially once "Slave Island" got the
Apocalypse story arc rolling. Of course, the continuity may have been
too much for the animators at AKOM.

The ending to "Slave Island"'s first airing ended with the X-Men
safely landing at the mansion. The next aired episode, "The Cure",
featured the X-Men rebuilding the mansion (Rogue's throwaway line:
"That boy Juggernaut sure made a mess.") WAT?! The mansion was
SUPPOSED to have been destroyed by Juggernaut at the end of "Slave
Island", leading into the next intended episode, "The Unstoppable
Juggernaut". Subsequent airings of "SI" featured the proper ending.

But the entire first season broadcast was a mess. Episodes would
dribble out once a month (the series premiered over Halloween weekend,
and the second episode wasn't aired until the day after Thanksgiving,
for example.) And, of course, plenty of unfinished scenes appeared in
the first-run broadcasts, which wound up on tape. Subsequent airings
(and the DVD box set), got the final cuts. (Check out the video tapes
if you don't believe me. Scenes were added and altered, music was
changed, etc.)

Season 2 was apparently the result of that messiness. They limited
the continuity to the Xavier-and-Magneto bookends, and kept the
episodes self-contained. It turned out to be a good way of focusing
on the individual character stories.
Post by Scott Eiler
Season 3 would have been awesome, except the publishers were already
giving up on it and only put together a half-season's worth.
Season 3's hard to explain. "Beyond Good & Evil" seemed like the
perfect finale to the series, but there were so many episodes stuck in
the pipeline that they didn't air until Fall of 1996. I wouldn't call
them "filler", but they were character origin stories, flashbacks,
"lost episodes" (Dazzler's ep, which should have followed the Dark
Phoenix Saga), and so on. One of the show's staff writers told me in
that those eps were sent to various studios, in addition to AKOM, and
the works in progress looked so horrible that they practically had to
be redone.
Post by Scott Eiler
Animation-wise: The main complaint I heard was, Wolverine should be
made of fluid motion, but he came nowhere close. I can recall him
attacking Colossus the exact same way twice in one episode, with the
exact same result, and there was exactly no claw contact either time.
Was this "The Unstoppable Juggernaut"?

The animation, with the exception of a few episodes from Season 2 and
the Phoenix Saga, ranged from tolerably mediocre to near unwatchable.
Curiously enough, X-Men had a producer, Sidney Iwanter, who helped
Tokyo Movie Shinsa get their foot into the door of animating North
American TV shows back in the 1980s. He, and several other
individuals involved with X-Men, mentioned in online interviews that
they wished they had Batman's animation budget.

You could argue that X-Men: Evolution was an attempt to rectify that,
but XM:E had its own problems. Some folks go back to the Toei-
animated pilot from 1987 (with Kitty Pryde). I have the videotape
right here, and can vouch for its technical amplomb, but it's as
disposable as a bad episode of the 1990s X-Men. I'll take "The Cure",
lame AKOM animation and all, 99 times out of 100, over those
adaptations.
Post by Scott Eiler
Post by Terrence Briggs
So why the hate?
*The audience's introduction to the X-Men is a whiny mallrat,
Jubilee. She is probably the LEAST interesting character on the team,
and (admittedly) a lousy introduction to the series. As a 12-year-old
watching the show for the first time, I would have agreed with that
assessment.
Huh? Perhaps we're not talking about the same series here.
I addressed this in my other response. In short: Jubilee is our
introduction to the X-men. She's kind of annoying :-)

Not horrible, but I'd say she was the least interesting character on
the team. We never really got an original story episode for her; just
"Jubilee's Fairytale Theater", a late-run episode bizarrely animated
by Phillipine Animation Studios.
Post by Scott Eiler
Post by Terrence Briggs
*The last two (or even three) seasons are godawful filler that is
better off not being seen. Even the episodes that close earlier
narrative arcs are handled so poorly that they might as well have been
dumped. (See: Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles, Phantom 2040, and
TMNT: Back to the Sewers for other examples.)
Yeah. Some of the ways that people give up on series mystify me. (I
still miss Babylon 5.)
If by "people give up", you mean, "producers filling an episode order
with crap"...

But I think it's fair to say that X-Men ended with a whimper. Still,
we got 20-or-so really good episodes out of it. That's saying
something.
Post by Scott Eiler
--
(signed) Scott Eiler 8{D> --------http://www.eilertech.com/---------
Terrence Briggs, has probably seen every episode of Season 1 twenty
times.
grinningdemon
2012-06-16 07:32:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 10:56:02 -0800 (PST), Terrence Briggs
Post by Terrence Briggs
The animation, with the exception of a few episodes from Season 2 and
the Phoenix Saga, ranged from tolerably mediocre to near unwatchable.
Curiously enough, X-Men had a producer, Sidney Iwanter, who helped
Tokyo Movie Shinsa get their foot into the door of animating North
American TV shows back in the 1980s. He, and several other
individuals involved with X-Men, mentioned in online interviews that
they wished they had Batman's animation budget.
You could argue that X-Men: Evolution was an attempt to rectify that,
but XM:E had its own problems.
I know I'm a little late to this party since this is an old thread and
I've been so busy lately I haven't been able to follow the group much
but I'm gonna throw out my 2 cents anyway.

I enjoyed X-Men TAS at the time but I noticed a lot of the flaws even
then and it doesn't hold up well at all...the flaws, many of which
have been pointed out in this thread, are all I notice anymore.

Personally, I thought X-Men Evolution was, by far, the best X-Men
cartoon to date (though I haven't seen the recent anime)...I admit,
shoehorning them into a normal high school was a bit much but it was
excusable given the the audience they were going for.

One thing I always hated about about X-Men TAS was how they tried to
stick closer to the comic storylines but ended up bastardizing them
because of the nature of a saturday morning cartoon and the characters
they had to work with at any given time (perfect example: the cop-out
ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga because they couldn't let her
die)...X-Men Evolution avoided this by telling their own stories but
staying true to the basics of the characters (for the most part).

They also avoided the trap most X-Men adaptations seem to fall into by
not making the whole show revolve around Wolverine (which is always
appreciated as I think he's the most overrated character in
comics..."Wolverine and the X-Men" pisses me off to no end)...my only
real complaint about the series (aside from it ending too soon) was
the mediocre series finale that wasted so much time trying to bring
all the characters from throughout the series into the story that it
left no actual time for any story itself (it also bothered me that, in
the absence of Xavier, Wolverine was the one to take charge even
though earlier stories had already established Cyclops as the logical
choice)...I really miss the show and I really wish they'd do a
complete series DVD set (the last season never got released on dvd at
all, to my knowledge).

All in all, it was another in a long list of great cartoons that ended
too soon like Batman TAS (and EVERY subsequent Bruce Timm show set in
that universe) and Spectacular Spiderman (a show that I really came to
love even though I never cared for the animation designs)...even "The
Batman" was actually very good by the end (it started off mediocre at
best but improved greatly in subsequent seasons) and could easily have
continued.
Remysun
2012-03-03 16:23:24 UTC
Permalink
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=...
With the X-Men animated series of the '90s, I always hear comments how
it's aged horribly (at least here in FAN). Which I think is very
untrue.
The storyline had some good drama and the animation (it does look old
when you look it at now) but the style fit the feel, looked just like
the comics, and still looks good to the eye.
The violence from the comics was toned down and the storyline was
weakened, but so was Batman: TAS.
Batman was pretty darn good at continuing the Dark Knight revolution.
What I remember about not being able to get into X-M:TAS was that it
was Professor X's team, yet when I caught on, he was in this constant
coma. GI-Joe pulled the same shit with Duke.
Scott Eiler
2012-03-03 20:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Batman was pretty darn good at continuing the Dark Knight revolution.
What I remember about not being able to get into X-M:TAS was that it
was Professor X's team, yet when I caught on, he was in this constant
coma. GI-Joe pulled the same shit with Duke.
In all fairness, the comic book was often the same way. Cyclops was
running the team by 1965.
--
(signed) Scott Eiler 8{D> -------- http://www.eilertech.com/ ---------

Turns out I'm an anally-fixated oedipal paranoid with
south-of-the-border schizophrenic delusions... But never mind, I've
found me the ideal job. I'm going to run for President!

- Major Honey, scripted by Grant Morrison (that's *Mister* Morrison to
you), Doom Patrol #46, August 1991.
Ultra Magnotron
2012-06-18 18:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by TMC
http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&thread=415346&page=1
With the X-Men animated series of the '90s, I always hear comments how
it's aged horribly (at least here in FAN). Which I think is very
untrue.
The storyline had some good drama and the animation (it does look old
when you look it at now) but the style fit the feel, looked just like
the comics, and still looks good to the eye.
The violence from the comics was toned down and the storyline was
weakened, but so was Batman: TAS.
So why the hate?
Um... I don't know what you're talking about. I love it. In my opinion
it hasn't aged horribly at all.

Loading...